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	<title>Comments on: Risking Mortification of the Flesh</title>
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	<description>A Voice of Sanity in an Insane World</description>
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		<title>By: trekstar77</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/11/29/risking-mortification-of-the-flesh/comment-page-1/#comment-1401</link>
		<dc:creator>trekstar77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=975#comment-1401</guid>
		<description>Robert - 

I was wondering if you would accept this for discussion:

You wrote about &quot;The Crusade Hurdle&quot; in &quot;Looking Out For #1.&quot;  If I remember, (and I more recently read Harry Browne &quot;Freedom In An Unfree World&quot; and may be mixed up,) the basic point is that there are more direct means of achieving results than joining groups or &quot;crusades.&quot;  How do we reconcile this with our new-found interest in &quot;community organizing&quot; and 9/12 and 8/28/10, etc...

Raises the next question -- do we have an obligatory allegiance to the United States Of America?  Can&#039;t we just find somewhere else to live if it gets unbearable here?  Or have we reached the limit of the virtue of selfishness?  

What about complete abstinence from the news?  Sounds like you have an addiction.

Oh, yeah, that reminds me...  I kind of have an issue with the Alcoholics Anonymous thing: I think it&#039;s somewhere between a religion and a cult.  And Mormonism?  See -- Glenn&#039;s already got some symptoms of a follower; are we getting caught up in his addiction?


You may email me at patrick (at) operakadabra (dot) com or post a reply, or maybe you&#039;ll take this on in an upcoming VOS.




Guns, Gold, And Ganja!



-p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert &#8211; </p>
<p>I was wondering if you would accept this for discussion:</p>
<p>You wrote about &#8220;The Crusade Hurdle&#8221; in &#8220;Looking Out For #1.&#8221;  If I remember, (and I more recently read Harry Browne &#8220;Freedom In An Unfree World&#8221; and may be mixed up,) the basic point is that there are more direct means of achieving results than joining groups or &#8220;crusades.&#8221;  How do we reconcile this with our new-found interest in &#8220;community organizing&#8221; and 9/12 and 8/28/10, etc&#8230;</p>
<p>Raises the next question &#8212; do we have an obligatory allegiance to the United States Of America?  Can&#8217;t we just find somewhere else to live if it gets unbearable here?  Or have we reached the limit of the virtue of selfishness?  </p>
<p>What about complete abstinence from the news?  Sounds like you have an addiction.</p>
<p>Oh, yeah, that reminds me&#8230;  I kind of have an issue with the Alcoholics Anonymous thing: I think it&#8217;s somewhere between a religion and a cult.  And Mormonism?  See &#8212; Glenn&#8217;s already got some symptoms of a follower; are we getting caught up in his addiction?</p>
<p>You may email me at patrick (at) operakadabra (dot) com or post a reply, or maybe you&#8217;ll take this on in an upcoming VOS.</p>
<p>Guns, Gold, And Ganja!</p>
<p>-p</p>
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		<title>By: Reality seeker</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/11/29/risking-mortification-of-the-flesh/comment-page-1/#comment-1399</link>
		<dc:creator>Reality seeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=975#comment-1399</guid>
		<description>Mr. Deusimplicitus

I enjoyed reading your meaningful comments, including this one: &quot;People will only change their ways when the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of actually making some real and significant changes&quot;

Yes, I agree with the above statement, as a rule of thumb, if I can edit out a few words so that it reads like this: &quot;People will only change their ways when the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of actually making.............changes&quot; 

I suggest that we call this the Theory Of Change Relative To Pain, and make our hypothesis a bit more concise: Most people will change only when pain forces a change. 

Pain is as great a motivator as it is an educator----very; However, people may or may not make &quot;real and significant changes&quot; for the better. The assumption that people learn their lesson from the pain they experience, and then opt for a better lifestyle is not always true. In fact, people often choose the path of least resistance in order to avoid pain. (e.g. Suicide) 

Mr. Deusimplicitus,  this theory of yours is the primary reason why verbal education, if given alone, will most likely fail. Because pain, in my opinion, is the more effective educator of the masses.. Moreover, it is more relevant to them than mere words.  

Truth be told: The masses need some pain to motivate them, and they&#039;re going to get it ---lots of it. (Maybe too much).

By the way, Mr. Ringer posted a great video recommendation. I watched it after I posted my first comments. I&#039;ve seen NIA&#039;s videos before, but not too recently. They&#039;re getting much better. This latest one is well worth 30 minutes of your life to watch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Deusimplicitus</p>
<p>I enjoyed reading your meaningful comments, including this one: &#8220;People will only change their ways when the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of actually making some real and significant changes&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, I agree with the above statement, as a rule of thumb, if I can edit out a few words so that it reads like this: &#8220;People will only change their ways when the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of actually making&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.changes&#8221; </p>
<p>I suggest that we call this the Theory Of Change Relative To Pain, and make our hypothesis a bit more concise: Most people will change only when pain forces a change. </p>
<p>Pain is as great a motivator as it is an educator&#8212;-very; However, people may or may not make &#8220;real and significant changes&#8221; for the better. The assumption that people learn their lesson from the pain they experience, and then opt for a better lifestyle is not always true. In fact, people often choose the path of least resistance in order to avoid pain. (e.g. Suicide) </p>
<p>Mr. Deusimplicitus,  this theory of yours is the primary reason why verbal education, if given alone, will most likely fail. Because pain, in my opinion, is the more effective educator of the masses.. Moreover, it is more relevant to them than mere words.  </p>
<p>Truth be told: The masses need some pain to motivate them, and they&#8217;re going to get it &#8212;lots of it. (Maybe too much).</p>
<p>By the way, Mr. Ringer posted a great video recommendation. I watched it after I posted my first comments. I&#8217;ve seen NIA&#8217;s videos before, but not too recently. They&#8217;re getting much better. This latest one is well worth 30 minutes of your life to watch.</p>
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		<title>By: deusimplicitus</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/11/29/risking-mortification-of-the-flesh/comment-page-1/#comment-1396</link>
		<dc:creator>deusimplicitus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=975#comment-1396</guid>
		<description>Robert,
I&#039;ve come to believe that the majority of Americans have been living in a reality distortion field where they believe, and have been encouraged to believe, that because they simply WANT something, or even for the simple fact that they were born, they are somehow &quot;entitled&quot; to it.
Until there are serious and painful deprivations and material losses to people who are undeserving of the material goods that they&#039;ve been able to accumulate in the increasingly dysfunctional social and economic system in the U.S. as it&#039;s evolved, nothing real or substantial is going to change. 

The macro economic imbalance in the current American financial system at present is staggering. Americans, overall, are still unprepared to psychologically objective enough to admit and face what we&#039;ve allowed to insidiously occur with our self serving politicians and the multi national corporations who appear to be pulling the string with these politicians.
 
At some point, Americans lost touch with the art of extrapolation of trends and failed to grasp that the charted course we were all seduced into feeding into, was an eventual dead end.
People will only change their ways when the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of actually making some real and significant changes to our values and behavior. We aren&#039;t there yet (or even close), and until conditions become so bad with enough Americans out of work and losing the things they value the most, that even the lies of the politicians and media who support them, are recognized by the majority for what they are, pure propaganda with malicious intent. Our faith has been misplaced and we have, as a nation, been taken advantage of as a result. 

Change starts with more thinking adults starting to express their disgust and dissatisfaction with their votes of no confidence in the present oligarchy and the nefarious organizations supporting the continuation of business as usual. 

Business as usual has become the political and business practice of parasitism and plunder by government mandate. In the end, this will be recognized in hindsight as nothing more than a form of national cannibalism with the few 
remained in power, at the eventual cost of the impoverishment and financial destruction of the nation as a whole.

We all live here and want out children to have a prosperous and secure future. Thus, we have to speak up and get others to wake up and then speak up, as we each have an individual stake in the future for ourselves and for those to whom we are personally responsible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,<br />
I&#8217;ve come to believe that the majority of Americans have been living in a reality distortion field where they believe, and have been encouraged to believe, that because they simply WANT something, or even for the simple fact that they were born, they are somehow &#8220;entitled&#8221; to it.<br />
Until there are serious and painful deprivations and material losses to people who are undeserving of the material goods that they&#8217;ve been able to accumulate in the increasingly dysfunctional social and economic system in the U.S. as it&#8217;s evolved, nothing real or substantial is going to change. </p>
<p>The macro economic imbalance in the current American financial system at present is staggering. Americans, overall, are still unprepared to psychologically objective enough to admit and face what we&#8217;ve allowed to insidiously occur with our self serving politicians and the multi national corporations who appear to be pulling the string with these politicians.</p>
<p>At some point, Americans lost touch with the art of extrapolation of trends and failed to grasp that the charted course we were all seduced into feeding into, was an eventual dead end.<br />
People will only change their ways when the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of actually making some real and significant changes to our values and behavior. We aren&#8217;t there yet (or even close), and until conditions become so bad with enough Americans out of work and losing the things they value the most, that even the lies of the politicians and media who support them, are recognized by the majority for what they are, pure propaganda with malicious intent. Our faith has been misplaced and we have, as a nation, been taken advantage of as a result. </p>
<p>Change starts with more thinking adults starting to express their disgust and dissatisfaction with their votes of no confidence in the present oligarchy and the nefarious organizations supporting the continuation of business as usual. </p>
<p>Business as usual has become the political and business practice of parasitism and plunder by government mandate. In the end, this will be recognized in hindsight as nothing more than a form of national cannibalism with the few<br />
remained in power, at the eventual cost of the impoverishment and financial destruction of the nation as a whole.</p>
<p>We all live here and want out children to have a prosperous and secure future. Thus, we have to speak up and get others to wake up and then speak up, as we each have an individual stake in the future for ourselves and for those to whom we are personally responsible.</p>
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		<title>By: Reality seeker</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/11/29/risking-mortification-of-the-flesh/comment-page-1/#comment-1395</link>
		<dc:creator>Reality seeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=975#comment-1395</guid>
		<description>Sooner or later, fully socialized health care is going to be the law of the land. In fact, it may be the straw that breaks the camel&#039;s back and crashes America to the point of no return and no more muddling through. The only way S.H.C. (Socialized Health Care) is not going to happen is if the country collapses first, before it happens.

Frankly, in the long run---which is what really counts---I don&#039;t believe that education alone will stop a &quot;violent counter-revolution&quot; from taking place. One of my father&#039;s witticisms was, &quot;people don&#039;t know because they don&#039;t want to know; and the reason they don&#039;t want to know is because they don&#039;t care; and the reason they don&#039;t care is because they&#039;re to god d**ed busy living their day to day trashy lives. Trash ---(i.e. scr**ing, boozing, blaspheming, partying, and all the other activities that humanoid tripe like to occupy themselves with 24/7) ---you know what I&#039;m talking about: The exact same garbage-life that Mr. Beck lived before he became the exception to the rule. Education worked with him because, unlike most, he wanted to become erudite; Not so, with the hoi polloi; whom, for the most part, like blissful and indulgent ignorance.

Personally, even though I don&#039;t believe in education, I&#039;m still going to speak out until it becomes time to separate the men from the boys. Murphy&#039;s Law applies in this current crisis more than ever: I&#039;m expecting the worst, hoping for the best, and preparing myself to deal with whatever happens.

I have great respect for individuals like Mr. Robert Ringer. He has a long track record that I can count on. I would never bet the farm against his advice.  I rely on his judgement as a tool to help perfect my own. That&#039;s why it&#039;s not a waste of time for me to post here---the only place I post, by the way.

I have a feeling that before this crisis is over, Mr. Ringer is going to stick his neck way out of his green tortoise shell in order to help educate &quot;the folks.&quot; I think he&#039;s ready for &quot;a great deal of frustration.&quot; I sincerely hope he is rewarded for his efforts, and that this site grows into a forum of well written opinion, commentary, and argument. 

As far as Mr. Glenn Beck goes, he&#039;s the best we&#039;ve got. We&#039;re going to need more than him if education fails, and events lead to the violent scenario that I think is nearing a certainty.

I rarely make predictions or give out financial advice, but there is a two trillion dollar balloon-payment, in the form of short-term treasuries(with less than a year to maturity), that the U.S. Government has to roll over real soon; so be ready for trouble if China and/or the rest of the world stop playing ball with America. I think America can muddle through by coercing the rest of the world into floating the paper dollar; maybe even until the Baby-Boomer start to retire, but I wouldn&#039;t stake my life on it.

It will be interesting to see when and how the funding crisis finally unfolds. When it happens, inflationism  is sure to occur, followed by a period of demonetization. &quot;Brothers and sisters,&quot; you better look out when demonetization starts to happen. This, in turn, will cause so much economic pain, that, in the end, the humanoid tripe will not be able to get funding for all their short-term desires. And then just wait and see: Once the welfare checks become worthless, than watch the blood fly. The only education that&#039;ll be taking place at that time is the kind that comes out of the barrel of an AK-47. 

Keep your head down, and just be sure that you don&#039;t learn more than you teach!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sooner or later, fully socialized health care is going to be the law of the land. In fact, it may be the straw that breaks the camel&#8217;s back and crashes America to the point of no return and no more muddling through. The only way S.H.C. (Socialized Health Care) is not going to happen is if the country collapses first, before it happens.</p>
<p>Frankly, in the long run&#8212;which is what really counts&#8212;I don&#8217;t believe that education alone will stop a &#8220;violent counter-revolution&#8221; from taking place. One of my father&#8217;s witticisms was, &#8220;people don&#8217;t know because they don&#8217;t want to know; and the reason they don&#8217;t want to know is because they don&#8217;t care; and the reason they don&#8217;t care is because they&#8217;re to god d**ed busy living their day to day trashy lives. Trash &#8212;(i.e. scr**ing, boozing, blaspheming, partying, and all the other activities that humanoid tripe like to occupy themselves with 24/7) &#8212;you know what I&#8217;m talking about: The exact same garbage-life that Mr. Beck lived before he became the exception to the rule. Education worked with him because, unlike most, he wanted to become erudite; Not so, with the hoi polloi; whom, for the most part, like blissful and indulgent ignorance.</p>
<p>Personally, even though I don&#8217;t believe in education, I&#8217;m still going to speak out until it becomes time to separate the men from the boys. Murphy&#8217;s Law applies in this current crisis more than ever: I&#8217;m expecting the worst, hoping for the best, and preparing myself to deal with whatever happens.</p>
<p>I have great respect for individuals like Mr. Robert Ringer. He has a long track record that I can count on. I would never bet the farm against his advice.  I rely on his judgement as a tool to help perfect my own. That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s not a waste of time for me to post here&#8212;the only place I post, by the way.</p>
<p>I have a feeling that before this crisis is over, Mr. Ringer is going to stick his neck way out of his green tortoise shell in order to help educate &#8220;the folks.&#8221; I think he&#8217;s ready for &#8220;a great deal of frustration.&#8221; I sincerely hope he is rewarded for his efforts, and that this site grows into a forum of well written opinion, commentary, and argument. </p>
<p>As far as Mr. Glenn Beck goes, he&#8217;s the best we&#8217;ve got. We&#8217;re going to need more than him if education fails, and events lead to the violent scenario that I think is nearing a certainty.</p>
<p>I rarely make predictions or give out financial advice, but there is a two trillion dollar balloon-payment, in the form of short-term treasuries(with less than a year to maturity), that the U.S. Government has to roll over real soon; so be ready for trouble if China and/or the rest of the world stop playing ball with America. I think America can muddle through by coercing the rest of the world into floating the paper dollar; maybe even until the Baby-Boomer start to retire, but I wouldn&#8217;t stake my life on it.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see when and how the funding crisis finally unfolds. When it happens, inflationism  is sure to occur, followed by a period of demonetization. &#8220;Brothers and sisters,&#8221; you better look out when demonetization starts to happen. This, in turn, will cause so much economic pain, that, in the end, the humanoid tripe will not be able to get funding for all their short-term desires. And then just wait and see: Once the welfare checks become worthless, than watch the blood fly. The only education that&#8217;ll be taking place at that time is the kind that comes out of the barrel of an AK-47. </p>
<p>Keep your head down, and just be sure that you don&#8217;t learn more than you teach!</p>
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