Comments on: The Illusion of Representation http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/10/13/the-illusion-of-representation/ A Voice of Sanity in an Insane World Fri, 03 Sep 2010 11:45:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: blh557 http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/10/13/the-illusion-of-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1258 blh557 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:15:14 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=922#comment-1258 I have been reading a lot of Jefferson, lately, as well as some of the other "framers" of our constitution and they seem to all have warned against the quite, unassuming relinquishment of "Representative Republic" governance to "Democracy", or governance by the popular whim of the voters (not always the "people"). As a plethora of Polls have integrated their way into our media-driven society, we have begun to transform ourselves, not just the government, into a populace directed by popular opinion, rather than the sense of sensibility, if I may. Our constitution was supposed to be a set of rules which, when followed and applied to the individual and governing bodies, would direct us all to provide the NECESSITIES of insuring domestic tranquility (keeping people safe from themselves and others and settling disputes), provide for the common defense (protection of the populace), promote the general Welfare (not provide welfare to the general public, but to assure economic stability), and secure the Blessings of Liberty (allow the populace to make their own mistakes/decisions). Anything else is non/quasi-constitutional, or specifically delineated by congressional act as an amendment. Those amendments are binding as long as they do not conflict with the given primary purpose of the constitution as previously stated. Mr. Toffler assumes that the constitution was meant to alter the underlying structure of industrialized nations by providing for government OF the people. He has evidently not read the constitution. Our President, Vice President, Senators and Congressmen were appointed by electors as determined by the states. That meant it was up to the states to determine how the representatives were elected or appointed that would ultimately elect or appoint our president, etc. The Elections of and by the constituents came later. They were added because otherwise there would have occurred a subculture of elites, etc., ad infinitum, to "rule" and become more powerful. Looks like we're backing up on that one. The problem occurs when we continually think of orselves as a DEMOCRACY. We are NOT. Democracies are inherently unstable and have always led to anarchy and totalitarianism. I fear the step to a form of socialist quasi-democracy manipulated by the media driven branch of the progressive wing of the Democrat party is not only at hand, but well underway. The elites have seen fit to determine how much our investments are worth, at least when applied to collective labor pools (read unions); basically zippo, nada, nil, zed... zero... and have blatantly handed over control of an enterprise they, themselves, helped to undermine simply because they contributed to their campaigns. They have determined that the safest place for our school age children is under the watchful eyes of a pedophile supporter... who, by the way, would be protected from discrimination (read prosecution) in their perfect world. They have determined to "reform" "health care" in this country under the direction of a nutcase who has been a lobbyist for the American Trial Lawyers Association. For the first time in history we have an avowed Communist as chief of staff for the President of the United States. Many of us have been sworn to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES from enemies foriegn AND domestic. I fear the time to do so is fast approaching. Hopefully it will occur in the 2010 elections and thereafter. If not, God help us, as we also have a constitutional edict to oust any government not following the constitution... and this one is not. I have been reading a lot of Jefferson, lately, as well as some of the other “framers” of our constitution and they seem to all have warned against the quite, unassuming relinquishment of “Representative Republic” governance to “Democracy”, or governance by the popular whim of the voters (not always the “people”). As a plethora of Polls have integrated their way into our media-driven society, we have begun to transform ourselves, not just the government, into a populace directed by popular opinion, rather than the sense of sensibility, if I may. Our constitution was supposed to be a set of rules which, when followed and applied to the individual and governing bodies, would direct us all to provide the NECESSITIES of insuring domestic tranquility (keeping people safe from themselves and others and settling disputes), provide for the common defense (protection of the populace), promote the general Welfare (not provide welfare to the general public, but to assure economic stability), and secure the Blessings of Liberty (allow the populace to make their own mistakes/decisions). Anything else is non/quasi-constitutional, or specifically delineated by congressional act as an amendment. Those amendments are binding as long as they do not conflict with the given primary purpose of the constitution as previously stated. Mr. Toffler assumes that the constitution was meant to alter the underlying structure of industrialized nations by providing for government OF the people. He has evidently not read the constitution. Our President, Vice President, Senators and Congressmen were appointed by electors as determined by the states. That meant it was up to the states to determine how the representatives were elected or appointed that would ultimately elect or appoint our president, etc. The Elections of and by the constituents came later. They were added because otherwise there would have occurred a subculture of elites, etc., ad infinitum, to “rule” and become more powerful. Looks like we’re backing up on that one. The problem occurs when we continually think of orselves as a DEMOCRACY. We are NOT. Democracies are inherently unstable and have always led to anarchy and totalitarianism. I fear the step to a form of socialist quasi-democracy manipulated by the media driven branch of the progressive wing of the Democrat party is not only at hand, but well underway.

The elites have seen fit to determine how much our investments are worth, at least when applied to collective labor pools (read unions); basically zippo, nada, nil, zed… zero… and have blatantly handed over control of an enterprise they, themselves, helped to undermine simply because they contributed to their campaigns.

They have determined that the safest place for our school age children is under the watchful eyes of a pedophile supporter… who, by the way, would be protected from discrimination (read prosecution) in their perfect world.

They have determined to “reform” “health care” in this country under the direction of a nutcase who has been a lobbyist for the American Trial Lawyers Association.

For the first time in history we have an avowed Communist as chief of staff for the President of the United States.

Many of us have been sworn to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES from enemies foriegn AND domestic.

I fear the time to do so is fast approaching. Hopefully it will occur in the 2010 elections and thereafter. If not, God help us, as we also have a constitutional edict to oust any government not following the constitution… and this one is not.

]]> By: Phil http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/10/13/the-illusion-of-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1249 Phil Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:54:52 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=922#comment-1249 I am sitting here watching Glenn Beck, as one of Fox's financial experts (definitely deserves the name relative to Larry King's bunch), "Charles," demonstrates on a black board how our unfunded liabilities are now well over 100 TRILLION dollars. I recall reading Robert's earlier works where he stressed the importance of understanding the concept of unfunded liabilities. Thank God I learned back then (early 1980s). But at any rate, it occurred to me watching these guys that there are other folks who believe in our concept of limited govt. as strongly as I and many others. Can you imagine the courage of these guys who over history have died for freedom? They may not have known about or understood the niceties of political philosophy (though compared to today's generation), but they put their lives on the line. Amazing stuff. We may realize one day why so many have found it so necessary to stand up and give their blood for the concept of self determination. I am sitting here watching Glenn Beck, as one of Fox’s financial experts (definitely deserves the name relative to Larry King’s bunch), “Charles,” demonstrates on a black board how our unfunded liabilities are now well over 100 TRILLION dollars. I recall reading Robert’s earlier works where he stressed the importance of understanding the concept of unfunded liabilities. Thank God I learned back then (early 1980s).

But at any rate, it occurred to me watching these guys that there are other folks who believe in our concept of limited govt. as strongly as I and many others. Can you imagine the courage of these guys who over history have died for freedom? They may not have known about or understood the niceties of political philosophy (though compared to today’s generation), but they put their lives on the line. Amazing stuff. We may realize one day why so many have found it so necessary to stand up and give their blood for the concept of self determination.

]]> By: tom07 http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/10/13/the-illusion-of-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1246 tom07 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:59:46 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=922#comment-1246 Thanks for your excellent articles and "The Liberty Education Interview Series." I appreciate the way you get to the “heart” of the issue in a clear and concise manner. Thank you for sharing your opinions and viewpoints. I find them valuable. Tom Thanks for your excellent articles and “The Liberty Education Interview Series.” I appreciate the way you get to the “heart” of the issue in a clear and concise manner. Thank you for sharing your opinions and viewpoints. I find them valuable.
Tom

]]> By: TheCount http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/10/13/the-illusion-of-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1245 TheCount Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:49:36 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=922#comment-1245 Rather than having the right to "dis-elect" our alleged representatives, by voting someone else in, we need the right to "unelect" them by voting against them. You could still only select one candidate for a particular office, but you would have the right to vote either for or against that candidate. Simply subtract the votes against from the votes for to determine the winner. People would come out of the woodwork to vote! Rather than having the right to “dis-elect” our alleged representatives, by voting someone else in, we need the right to “unelect” them by voting against them. You could still only select one candidate for a particular office, but you would have the right to vote either for or against that candidate. Simply subtract the votes against from the votes for to determine the winner. People would come out of the woodwork to vote!

]]> By: robspe http://blog.robertringer.com/2009/10/13/the-illusion-of-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1244 robspe Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:37:18 +0000 http://blog.robertringer.com/?p=922#comment-1244 I've come to the conclusion that representative government is necessary but not sufficient for prosperity. The sine qua non is a functioning culture with traditions and cohesiveness fostered by unity of language and, ideally, faith and other behavioral similarities. If the average man does not feel that his society reflects his concerns and values his way of life, all the representation in the world won't help. You might even be better off under a totalitarian government that had a unified culture behind it, if you were part of that culture, than in a fragmented democracy with competing cultural viewpoints that make progress and prosperity impossible. The foundation of American culture is the Constitution and an attitude of progress and prosperity for all who identify with and are willing to sacrifice for the cultural assumptions. Without that, we are doomed as a civilization to decline and chaos. I’ve come to the conclusion that representative government is necessary but not sufficient for prosperity. The sine qua non is a functioning culture with traditions and cohesiveness fostered by unity of language and, ideally, faith and other behavioral similarities. If the average man does not feel that his society reflects his concerns and values his way of life, all the representation in the world won’t help. You might even be better off under a totalitarian government that had a unified culture behind it, if you were part of that culture, than in a fragmented democracy with competing cultural viewpoints that make progress and prosperity impossible. The foundation of American culture is the Constitution and an attitude of progress and prosperity for all who identify with and are willing to sacrifice for the cultural assumptions. Without that, we are doomed as a civilization to decline and chaos.

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